4. Brian Bauer on plastic and packaging circularity

Audio Transcript:

Garr Punnett (00:16)

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Multi-usiverse podcast. I’m Garr Punnett, Chief of Staff here at Rheaply and lead Circular Cconomist. I just actually spoke with Brian Bauer, head of Circular Economy and Enterprise Partnerships at Algramo. You’re going to love this conversation. We kind of get into the weeds a little bit around what it takes to start an ecosystem. They’re focusing on maintaining use of plastic products and plastic packaging and what that means for consumer markets like Santiago in Europe as well as the United States. They’re doing some great work.

Garr Punnett (00:53)

I think you’re going to love this conversation. Thanks so much for listening. Can you explain Algramo to the average consumer and the purpose of providing the services that you all are providing?

Brian Bauer (01:07)

Sure. First of all, thank you so much for having Algramo on your podcast. So what Algramo is? We’re a platform for global brands. We’re currently working with Nestle, Unilever, Colgate Clorox, and in conversations with many other similar brands. And what we do is we enable them to sell the product and not the packaging. So we do this through a reusable packaging system. We enable them to keep packaging in the economy in order to the environment. So there’s three key core aspects to Algramo. One is our app. So this is an app that works across brands across products and allows the consumer to have one app for many different product types. And as we get more products and partners into the app, the app increases in value and utility for the consumer. So that’s the first aspect the app. The second aspect is what we call smart packaging, which we specifically call packaging as a wallet. So what that is, is it’s RFID technology? Or we can also use NFC near field communication technology under the label. And that connects with the third part of our platform, which is IoT connected dispensers, which I don’t have here in my apartment. So basically, what that means is that this here it goes into the IoT connected dispenser, and then all three systems are connected to the cloud. And then the dispenser knows how much money you have in your packaging, and then it dispenses the product based on how much money is in your packaging. The RFID can also store other information, like Gamification of the impact it’s creating, understand the impact it’s creating. And yes, that’s the three core systems. To Algramo are key elements of our system. And like I said, the end product is just a way for global brands to sell the product, but decouple it from the packaging waste.

Garr Punnett (02:54)

Now on that sort of third element that you weren’t able to show in your own apartment. That’s a part of I think the and I forget what they’re called. But sort of the three wheeled vehicles or the dispensing machines that you all place around. Is that correct? That it’s both mobile and stationary? Or is that sort of changed in the recent months.

Brian Bauer (03:15)

It has changed a little bit where we still have the tricycles. So we have electric tricycles that have dispensers on the back. Those are IoT connected dispensers, same as the type of dispenser you’d have in a fixed location. But we’re moving more. We see more impact and more opportunity, more convenience, more sales and retail environments.

Garr Punnett (03:32)

Oh, excellent.

Brian Bauer (03:33)

So a while ago, about in April of this year, we started a pilot with Walmart here in Chile. We started that with three different stores and with four different Walmart white label products. That pilot went really well, and we’re moving into the next phase, which is moving away from just Walmart white label products. We’re still keeping those Walmart white label products, but we’re bringing in other brand partners. So some of our global brand partners to increase the portfolio have different kind of price tiers quality levels of different products and then expanding into more stores. And then we’re soon hoping to expand that to other Walmarts and other Latin American countries. But that’s in negotiation right now.

Garr Punnett (04:14)

That’s fantastic. Now you’re on the alliances partnerships strategy part of Algramo. Can you talk a little bit about the complexity of not just creating a product line, no judgment on just a product line, but what it takes to create a new offering of a new ecosystem and what it takes to really bring the three elements of maybe an ecosystem together, and how that sort of has been both a challenge, but also is the big opportunity when constructing in a new space.

Brian Bauer (04:49)

Yeah. So first, maybe I’ll talk about the opportunities. So one thing I like to use myself and my official title, Algramo, is circular Economy and institutional Partnerships. That’s how we classify alliance of institutional partnerships. So essentially, what that means is I use the circular economy to find values aligned partners that are interested in promoting and enabling and seeing the circular economy go for more of a theoretical academic concept into reality, into a real world business model. So I find the various types of stakeholders, anything from universities, NGOs, brands, retailers, really, any investors, anyone interested in catalyzing and seeing the circular economy in action in the real world, creating value. I bring those stakeholders together, final stakeholders, bring them together and then figure out ways that we can work on changing the system, essentially because circular economy isn’t just getting a little bit more recycled content into the packaging. It’s avoiding the need for packaging in the first place, being a lot more kind of systemic and holistic and trying to figure out how you can change the system. So that’s where the real complexity comes in understanding how you can potentially change the system, how you can change the system with doing things like minimizing supply chains for option. So that’s one thing we’re looking at right now with our retail pilots is when you do a fairly small pilot. Quite often, the various stakeholders in the pilot are willing to sacrifice things to keep it simple, cost effective, cheap and quick to implement in a pilot stage. But then once you’ve validated that the pilot’s working, you need to go to a more systematic, holistic optimization of the supply chain, where you can make big changes, which will often require significant investment or changes. But if done right, can create huge synergies, huge kind of cost savings, essentially. And that’s what we’re looking at right now is trying to understand supply chain optimization. So we’re currently looking at doing that in a lot more detail for Instore retail, figuring out how to optimize that supply chain for things like B to be reasonable packaging. That’s one thing. The consumer doesn’t see that. But there’s a reusable packaging system. Essentially, it’s anywhere from maybe 20 gallons to a couple of 100 gallons in size. And it’s basically the reasonable package that goes from the factory of the brand, from the Unilever factory to the Algramo dispenser. And then when that gets used, it goes back to Unilever, gets washed, cleaned and refilled. Again. So looking at understanding the supply chain optimizations to do things like that is really critical, because really before models like Algramo and other Reese models that just basically didn’t exist.

Garr Punnett (07:30)

What I am so tracking with because we go through this as well, is that the two stage sales cycle you’re both selling the enterprise and the partnership on the value of working with Algramo. In Rheaply’s case, we’re often talking to multiple different stakeholders. So we might be talking to facilities, operations, procurement and surplus and the combination of those types of stakeholders and then the use cases you need to one of those conversations result in a positive maybe selling experience for us where we’ve now figured out, okay, we can work together. This is how we go forward. But then we have to turn around and start selling to the individual users at each one of those organizations or users at maybe another community level. How are you all handling the complexity of both selling to your enterprise partners? Let’s say a Unilever or a Clorox or whoever it might be, but also then turning around and creating the same but different marketing material to sell to the consumers. What’s the complexity in building that ecosystem of consumers and then those partners?

Brian Bauer (08:42)

I guess one thing. First of all, I don’t work too much in that area. That’s more than a business base. So I will be speaking at a more of a high level. But one of the things one of the opportunities we do. And this goes back to the partnership part of the institutional partnership. Part of the piece of the puzzle is we work with organizations once again that are interested in catalyzing the circular economy. For example, SAP.IO, we’re in the SAP program, as you were last year. I actually spoke with some of your getting insights and advice on how we can take advantage and maximize our opportunity with SAP as much as possible. So working with organizations like that that are well connected to our key stakeholders is one really critical, valuable, and powerful way to do that more effectively. And then working with NGOs, we have a lot of NGOs that we work with, like the World Economic Forum. As an example, we’re developing relationships with some other global NGOs and working with them to understand how we can sell our services and value platform and value creation that we’re creating to key stakeholders that they work with.

Garr Punnett (09:43)

Interesting. Yeah, I love that. And talk about maybe. Then what’s the power of reuse for a consumer? What’s the money that it saves them, the packaging, that it saves them, the impact on their day to day lives or their day to day budget. What does that mean for those consumers?

Brian Bauer (10:00)

Okay, well, maybe I’ll rewind a little bit and go a little bit high level, please. So the Ellen MacArthur foundation believes that for fast moving consumer goods products, that’s essentially anything you’ll find in your average Costco, Walmart, Whole Foods store. Absolutely. That type of consumption, 20% of that type of consumption can be sold in reasonable packaging like Algramo is using right here. And Interestingly, this is actually a single use bottle. It’s the exact same bottle they use with a new label and the ten cent RFID chip on it. This bottle is one of the first ones. It’s two years old. It’s been refilled almost 20 times, and it was designed to be used once.

Garr Punnett (10:39)

So right there, we’re seeing the packaging decrease.

Brian Bauer (10:43)

So the packaging cost savings are huge. There’s also a lot of cost savings that you can create on reduce your cost of goods sold now.

Garr Punnett (10:51)

Is that a packaging cost decrease both to the brand as well as the consumer? How do you all I bet that’s on both fronts.

Brian Bauer (11:00)

Yeah, exactly. Like I said, this is a business as usual packaging that they use about 20 times here in Chile. Every time in Chile, there’s a consumption pretty much the world. Every time there’s a consumption process of three liters of Omo, Unilever has to pay for one of these bottles to come onto the market, be filled, and then the consumer can use it both Unilever and the consumer pay for that bottle Unilever on top of paying for it economically. At the end of that bottle’s life, it could end up on a beach or something like that. And then there’s environmental NGO saying, Unilever, look what’s happening here. It creates negative externalities for Unilever. Essentially, packaging at the end of its life, packaging doesn’t have value at the end of its life, typically. And that’s the key challenge. So on that note, too, there’s an interesting thing that we’re doing here with Unilever with this RFID technology inside the bottle. It’s what we call sustainable consumption credit. And what that means is when you buy Unilever detergent here in Santiago, where you pay about 30% less than the regular price at the average supermarket here in Chile. So you’ve got a 30% discount over regular price. On top of that, we have what we call sustainable consumption credit that works out to about 10% of the purchase price. And what that is, it’s not applied when you buy it, it’s put into the bottle for a future use. So we’re putting value into the packaging so that we get people to think differently about their packaging and not think of it as just something that you use once and then recycle or throw away. But you use once and then it gets money put into it. It’s value increases. So in the future, when you fill it, it decreases your product cost off of an already good deal.

Garr Punnett (12:39)

So it’s creating that deposit system through, but almost privatized. Who’s paying that value into that bottle?

Brian Bauer (12:50)

I believe it’s Unilever that’s paying that’s sustainable consumption credit, which is also a really key driver of brand loyalty.

Garr Punnett (12:57)

Exactly.

Brian Bauer (12:58)

With detergent with laundry detergent, it has a very low loyalty rate. That means if PNG or whatever competing brand puts a good sale on, people aren’t married to Omo, but they are much more likely to be married to Omo if they have a reasonable packaging and further discounts for the sustainable consumption credits. So things like that can get people to think differently about packaging and turn the brand loyalty rates for a product that has the loyalty rates into much higher rates, which creates major value for any brand, especially when the product has a lot of competition and low brand loyalty rates.

Garr Punnett (13:31)

Love that. Absolutely. Now, when it comes to the change management aspect, there’s probably some policy changes that need to happen. A lot of these communities. Can you share with us a little bit of the policy work that you all are doing and sort of the advances that you’re seeing in multiple markets across the world. Is there anything starting in Santiago?

Brian Bauer (13:54)

Yeah, that’s an interesting question. There’s actually a new law. It’s a proposed law. And what’s really interesting about this law, too, is there’s two senators, one is from the left, one is from the right. So it’s got broad spectrum support. And they’re both lobbying for a regulation here in Chile. So the whole country to have a refill aisle so larger supermarkets would be required to have one full aisle for refill systems. And we’re seeing similar, even more advanced, more aggressive legislation in France. In France, there’s a law proposed right now that have been told looks very likely to pass. They’re going to mandate 20% 20% of floor space in French supermarkets nationally, not just in Paris nationally, are going to have they’re going to be required to have 20% of floor space for retail systems in France by 2030 and some significant amount by 2025. So this is happening, as we speak, a refill system for this type of product used to be a nice to have it’s moving to a must have now, especially with legislation like this coming in Mexico, also just released some interesting EPR updates and circular economy kind of regulations that are going to affect packaging. But I don’t know enough about the details to comment beyond that. So we’re seeing a lot of policy come into play, though. That’s really starting to push brands and retailers to really kind of accelerate their interest in their desire to bring these systems into market.

Garr Punnett (15:21)

Now, this is a lofty type question here, but we were talking to one of our previous guests, and he exclaimed that reuse is the new recycle as reuse begins to claim more both traction in our market as well as frankly, just a huge way to decrease the impact of packaging. What does that statement mean to you all? And then how are you really driving that forward across these different markets?

Brian Bauer (15:49)

That’s a really wise statement of my opinion. And perhaps it could be could have been kind of kicked off by what Boris Johnson said a couple of weeks ago, about two or three weeks ago.

Garr Punnett (16:00)

Give me more.

Brian Bauer (16:00)

Boris Johnson, who is not known to be very pro environment or concerned about the environment

Garr Punnett (16:05)

Or his hair.

Brian Bauer (16:06)

He said, recycling is not working. We need new alternatives. And I mean, it’s not working. Recycling for CPPG, consumer packaged goods, the types of products that Algramo sells. We’ve been doing that.

Brian Bauer (16:18)

We’ve been pushing that for about 40 years globally. We’re around 9%. Of that 9%, 2% gets recycled at equal or higher value. So we put billions of dollars into this recycling myth. And if people buy into that myth, they think they can consume endless amounts of single use products and there’s no harm because it gets recycled. But that’s not true. That’s a policy. Like I said, about 9% of the plastic is getting recycled. They’re cherry picking a few specific types of plastic that have higher value and higher post value use and more uses. It’s just not working. So I think people are waking up to that and realizing that recycling isn’t the silver bullet. It doesn’t mean that you can just consume mindlessly. And don’t worry, because it’s going to be recycled.

Garr Punnett (17:07)

It’s all going to get taken care of. Yes.

Brian Bauer (17:09)

So what we need to do is like I said with this bottle here, I’ve used this bottle about 20 times over the past two years, and every time I use it, I eliminate the need for one of these bottles to come onto the market in the first place. I eliminate the need for this to be recycled or landfilled. And one of the biggest problems with plastic, too. One of the biggest problems is it lasts a really long time. That can also be a huge attribute if you have a system in place, a business model in place that can keep that packaging in the economy and out of the environment so that’s what we do is we work on creating those systems and helping brands, consumers, and society as a whole understand how they can do that and make that happen.

Garr Punnett (17:54)

You know, I love all of that. What’s the real barriers? I know that you all have spent most of your time or you have specifically spent most of your time focusing on the partnerships out of the US. But high level, what are the barriers here on US adoption, or is it really just now trying the pilots, educating the consumers, seeing the strength of the use case and then really sort of scaling from there?

Brian Bauer (18:23)

I think one of the key challenges is that what we’re competing against single use is extremely cheap. The economies of scale on single use are mind blowing the subsidies ingrained in single use plastic because the hydrocarbon industry has a lot of public subsidies are huge. So we’re competing against something that is extremely cheap and very convenient. If you consume something single use and just throw it in the recycle bin, throw it in the garbage. That’s so simple and so easy. So that’s one key challenge. We’re competing against something that is extremely simple, extremely convenient, low cost. And we’re asking people to do things like bring their packaging back to fill it up. But as people realize the negative externalities of plastic and that recycling isn’t solving the problem, I think they become more invested in doing reuse models, especially. We feel this is really critical, especially if there are significant and real cost savings that get passed on to the end consumer. We think that if you ask someone to do refill, especially a type of refill that grammar is doing where you bring your own packaging back to the Superstore, there needs to be a discount. You can’t really have it at like, business as usual cost. Otherwise, you’re going to have a very small segment of the economy that’s interested in your solution. So we want to keep it really mass market by trying our best to maximize convenience and also keeping the price as low as possible.

Garr Punnett (19:53)

Now, this is truly an uneducated question, and I’m hoping that maybe you can help educate me on this. What is the recycling infrastructure investment in the United States versus a market like Santiago or Mexico City, I imagine. And this is where the uneducated part of this, there’s a lot more money invested in these systems across the country, in the US that maybe you’re getting to skip that step of investment in some of these other countries, like Chile or Brazil or et cetera in some of these countries. Is that true? Am I correct, or is there a way that you can skip the step and skip it into reuse?

Brian Bauer (20:44)

Well, one thing to keep in mind is that reuse is kind of postulated to work for about 20% of your average packaging, your average supermarket. So it’s not a solution for everything. If you get into business models like Loop, Terracycles loop. I think they can do a much wider kind of product portfolio because they have the reverse logistics. Basically just they have a different business model, different logistics, different cleaning processes. And I think that can touch more products, different in different materials. But even with them, I don’t think there’s an opportunity to do resell for maybe. I don’t know. I don’t want to guess here, but I don’t think there’s a whole lot more than 20%. Maybe let’s be really optimistic. Maybe you get up to 50%, but there’s still going to be a need to recycle 50% of your material. So I don’t think Reuse is a model for everything. And once again, I just want to be clear. I’ve never really heard people say 50%. But using a model like Loop, that in that type of system, perhaps you could with a bit of luck to get up to that level, because they do have a lot of product types in their portfolio, and they could evolve and create technologies, et cetera. To do more. But going back to the question, though, on infrastructure here in Chile, we’re a country of about 19 million. So that’s like a big, moderate size, moderate to large US state. We’re about 3000 miles north to south, and we’re about 200 miles wide. I think people forget that extremely long. And Santiago, where I live, has about 7 million people. So in Santiago, there’s pretty decent recycling infrastructure, although with that said, our recycling rates are below the global average. There’s a lot just go straight into landfill. Like, as an example, soda cans, beer cans, aluminum. They just go straight into the garbage where I’m from, I’m from Canada, a beer count has $0.10 on it.

Garr Punnett (22:46)

That’s a lot of value.

Brian Bauer (22:48)

Twelve beers is worth 120. So here they just get chucked straight into the garbage. And there’s just not. But there is recycling for them. But the vast majority just go straight into the garbage that I’ve seen. Wow. And once you get outside of Santiago into this long, skinny country where the cities get really small, there’s just not the economies of scale. And the distances are so long. Like we’re talking. I think it’s very similar to going east to west, across the US, the length of Chile North, the south. So imagine that with, like, a densely populated or not densely sparsely populated in a few pockets of cities and trying to do recycling, look at the challenges the US faces with a very dense and very developed infrastructure. So essentially, here in Chile, recycling doesn’t really work very well outside of the capital, the pockets and the only things where it would work for would be the really high value materials. And then beyond that, it’s just like the economics don’t allow it to be viable.

Garr Punnett (23:54)

Thank you for that. We’re going to do a little inside baseball here and get a little more in the weeds on maybe products creep or scope creep for your offering on Rheaply’s end. We’re always asked to do more, and we’re having to constantly battle against drilling down for depth and really securing a use case and the value in the use case versus either what our clients are expecting or what a consumer might be expecting in terms of breadth of an offering. How do you all manage that? I know you all have so much demand when it comes to people want more stuff, whether that might be dog food, whether that might be more detergent or some other product offering. How are you managing that demand?

Brian Bauer (24:39)

That’s a good question. A couple of years ago, I was essentially the lead of the business team, Algramo. There was basically me and the founder of Algramo and no one else in the Algramo 2.0 team, or maybe one or two other people. And I was basically leading the new business relationship myself. And then I’d go to the founder of Algramo and say, hey, Koti, what do you think about this? Blah, blah, blah. And that was how we were working in those days. We really had to pitch and sell and create a deck and try and sell up how and why they should work with us. Now we have a new business team with I think a dozen people on it. And I just, like, remotely connected to that team. And that team leaves those relationships. And now many global brands come to Algramo into the new business team and say, like, global brand logo Algramo. Here’s how we can collaborate together, and they’re pitching to us how and why we should work together. So that’s totally changed. But to go back to your question now on what we look at, we look at things like how much material will be offset. If we have a reuse system, for example, we have this here. This is 133 grams of http plastic. So every time we can avoid one consumption cycle, we eliminate 133 grams of plastic. We’ve had some candy manufacturers asked if we could do their candy, and if we do their candy, every time there’s a consumption process, we’re going to eliminate point one or .2 grams of plastic from going on the market. So we look at things like that, that’s kind of the impact equation, like how much plastic can be avoided. We’ll also look at things like, what is the end use case of that plastic? Is it going to get recycled, or is it just going to go to landfills? It’s going to end up in the environment?

Garr Punnett (26:22)

Like, what are the odds that can come back?

Brian Bauer (26:24)

Yeah. We look at the cost of the product, our systems, they require capex investments. So the brands need to have a business case of PNL that works out in their favor. So it’s really challenging to do a product that is super low cost. We need to have kind of slightly higher cost products so the PNL can be worked out properly. And we try and pick products that are essential and required. We try and leave out products that maybe are not essentially not required to hit the kind of reduce angle of the waste hierarchy. And what else would I say? Those are the main kind of filter points.

Garr Punnett (27:08)

So when you’re speaking about those filter points, how do you handle the no, do you essentially go back and say, hey, we can’t do this right now, but we could potentially do this in the future. Is that sort of the process for you all?

Brian Bauer (27:25)

Yes. Another thing, too, that I didn’t mention is that we pick our kind of product focuses. So as an example, in North America dry foods like, if you go into your average whole foods, there’s a wall of, I don’t know, 50 dispensers nuts, pastas, et cetera meal. Those have been around forever, and they’re really well developed. We also don’t see ourselves so much as a hardware producer. We see ourselves as a technology platform. So when possible, we’re happy to we’re actually exploring some relationships right now with some of our direct competitors in Europe, where we’re looking at integrating our smart packaging and platform technology into their dispensing technology, which is fairly low tech and basically creating that platform technology for them so they can sell their products more securely, more cost effectively for a lower cost. And in doing that, we can help them sell products more effectively. But going back to that key question, though, we try. And another thing, too, is we stay focused on our product types. So the product types were focused on now where we feel we’re quite distinct from other actors is liquid home care moving into liquid personal care, and something we’re interested in doing fairly soon, too, is beverage on the go. So anything from water, juice soda, potentially beer or wine and reasonable pocketing systems. And those are interesting, too, because there’s really fast consumption cycles water juice, soda that’s daily multiple times per day sometimes. And in that model, it’s really exciting because you can basically have a model where you’re going from single use packaging, non concentrate sales to concentrate sales, which eliminate about 80% to 90% of the shipping rate to reasonable packaging. The global economy currently puts out 1 million bottles per minute single use bottles, beverage bottles per minute. That was precooked where it is now, but approximately that 1 million bottles per minute 24/7, 365. So if we could tap 1% of that, that’s a huge impact.

Garr Punnett (29:23)

I am excited for the data that hopefully comes out, which says, I don’t know if there’s any data on this yet of whether consumption went up or down on that front, as people were purchasing more, bringing it home during COVID, or if the on the Goness really impacted the overall use of single use plastics. Well, let’s do the go forward the look ahead. What’s next? For Algramo, what does 22 look like for you all? What’s going to be the focus here?

Brian Bauer (29:58)

So our four focuses I kind of hinted to previously, is focusing more on in store, so looking to develop relationships with retailers. We’ve got a pilot lined up. It’s going to start in early 2022 in London, the major UK retailer love that we’re looking to expand to Mexico City in the early part of 2022 with a major retailer and several brands. And the latter part of 2022 looks like Paris and potentially Columbia.

Garr Punnett (30:28)

Okay. And then 2023. Who do I need to talk to for Chicago. How do we get this happening?

Brian Bauer (30:34)

Well, I mean, the US is already in pilot facing motion.

Garr Punnett (30:39)

Got it. Excellent.

Brian Bauer (30:40)

They’re looking to raise capital, the implementation partner.

Garr Punnett (30:43)

Here we go.

Brian Bauer (30:44)

And in the US, as you probably know, doing things requires a lot more capital. So they’re trying to raise some capital so they can do things and be a little bit more aggressive on their territorial expansion. On that note, though, in the US, we just started a pilot with Target in San Francisco.

Garr Punnett (30:59)

Love that.

Brian Bauer (30:59)

About a week and a half ago. It’s like a concept store. It’s not a main store. It’s kind of dipping your toes in the water to see if you can get into the main store.

Garr Punnett (31:06)

And a great market to do that.

Brian Bauer (31:08)

Quite interesting.

Garr Punnett (31:08)

Yeah. Good market for that big fan of Target. So go them. Well, excellent. We love to end the show, too. On random acts of really an ongoing fit here random acts of reuse in which you share, maybe something that you’ve reused in your life. It can’t be any Algramo product, but maybe part one could be. And part two could be another something else.

Brian Bauer (31:35)

Okay, well, I’ve got something right in front of me right now. Grab it. And here it is. I just couldn’t throw the bottle away because I thought it was really cool.

Garr Punnett (31:45)

Oh, I love the color.

Brian Bauer (31:46)

Turn it into a flower vase.

Garr Punnett (31:49)

Nice. And I see that you’ve done that kind of too on the patio. You’ve got some flower beds made out of. Those are just hanging flower beds.

Brian Bauer (31:58)

Yeah, those are just hanging flower beds.

Garr Punnett (31:59)

Okay. Excellent. Love that. Well, Brian, thanks so much for taking the time again. We’ve known each other for a little bit now, and I always love seeing what you all are up to. And I so look forward to celebrating the successes to come.

Brian Bauer (32:14)

Yeah. Thanks so much. Once again, thanks so much for inviting Algramo. Here, keep up the amazing work at Rheaply and great to be connected. Let’s connect in another year or so. Excellent.

Garr Punnett (32:23)

For more updates.

Brian Bauer (32:24)

Perfect.

Garr Punnett (32:24)

Thank you, Brian.